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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptics in an

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episode number 325 for the 11th of

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January 2015 Richard Saunders here with

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you from a soggy yes soggy Sydney

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Australia the rains have come it's

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actually a pleasant change the last week

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has been very humid very muggy very warm

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with those sort of nights where you wake

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up in the middle because it's too damn

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hot to sleep but today is a nice change

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but you don't want to hear about the

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weather or do you hang on you can

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actually hear the weather i'm downstairs

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today let me see the sounds of rain

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dripping off the balcony that's exciting

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for you i know you would rather hear

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about what's coming up on the skeptic

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zone this week quite frankly so would i

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we're going to start with evidence

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please with Joe alabasta and what a

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topic what a week what a evidence please

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it's going to be this week with Joe

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alabasta some of you may know that

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there's an impending tour of a American

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named sherry Tenpenny who's coming out

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here to give a series of talks or to

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appear at a series of talks it's a

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little bit unclear basically she's a

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anti vaxcel pushes the anti-vaccination

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message and the response the social

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media response to her coming out has

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been quite something my friends quite

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something Joe will cover this shortly

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its extensive we've had venues cancel

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her talk right left and center we've had

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lots of media especially print but some

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radio some television concerning her

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doctor Rach even appeared on the project

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which I think we'll be hearing that

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audio soon to talk about her as well as

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Alison Gaylord from the Northern Rivers

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vaccination supporters it brings up many

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interesting topics especially in light

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of the events of power

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in the last few days and free speech and

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people saying well she shouldn't be

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allowed to come here deny her visa

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because she's going to come out here and

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spew her dangerous nonsense now the

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people saying well look we don't agree

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with her dangerous nonsense but surely

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she has the right to come here and put

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her views it's a tricky one it really is

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ultimately I would take the view I think

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that yes even though I would disagree

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with everything she says she should have

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the right to say it but the rest of us

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certainly have the right to strongly

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objected her saying it and people have

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the right not to have her at events and

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venues and say no you can't say this

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thing here at our event or our venue go

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away that's their right to Joe will be

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covering lots of these issues coming up

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with evidence please following that it's

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a weakened science yes they're back a

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week in science from the Royal

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Institution of Australia can't wait to

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hear that the welcome return of a

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weakened science and after that it's the

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raw skeptic report with Heidi Robertson

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Heidi from the Northern Rivers

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vaccination supporters group now she and

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Alison Gaylord were the subjects of a

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newspaper report last week about their

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their group and how they were may be

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labeled hippies once but now they

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embrace the clear scientific method

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which includes the benefits of

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vaccination and so we'll hear that

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report Heidi will read that report by

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Jane Hansen and then Heidi will discuss

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some of the backlash some of the what we

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call the flying monkeys the anti-vaxxers

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up in that area who have a ghast

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horrified quaking in their boots that

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somebody could be once considered to be

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alternative and now embracing common

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sense so to speak so Heidi will tell us

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about

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and read out some of those are replies

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on Facebook and Twitter and so forth and

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then to round off the show Maynard may

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not spooky action chats to Michael

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Marshall who was a guest of the

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Australian skeptics at our recent

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convention just late last year in in

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November and this is the first part of a

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two-parter so today we'll hear from

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Michael Marshall part 1 and next week

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will round off that interview part 2

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thank you to those people who keep

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buying the vaccination chronicles DVD at

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www skeptics on TV just scroll down on

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the left you can see the link you can

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buy your own copy which is designed to

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be copied by you and given away to

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people who then can copy it and give it

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away and so on and so forth twelve

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dollars covers the production and

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postage anywhere in the world it's in

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the pal format but it should work on

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most modern TVs and DVD players and

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certainly would work on computers and

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it's also a way for you to show your

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support for the message of vaccination

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and your support for the skeptic zone

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that's great I've just sent out a couple

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yesterday one went to Minnesota yeah one

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went to Minnesota various places around

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Australia good to get that DVD out there

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and of course if you just do a Google

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search on the vaccination chronicles or

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go to skeptics on TV you can see that

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documentary online the DVD has our extra

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features it's got extended interviews

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and lots of languages lots of subtitles

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in different languages but now it's time

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for me to wander over to the kitchen get

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some sourdough bread make some nice

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crusty toast light smear of cream cheese

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and then put some poached eggs on top of

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that mmm nice cup of coffee oh well I am

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enjoying my late breakfast I hope you

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what we want is some more evidence

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please

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hello this is Joe alabaster

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well it's been a huge week here for

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Australian skeptics and supporters of

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evidence-based medicine with the recent

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announcement that Shari Tenpenny

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American anti-vaccination campaigner is

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planning a tour of Australia in which

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has been booked to speak at several

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parenting seminars and dinners the news

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was broken by our blogger friend

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reasonable Hank on the twenty-ninth of

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December with his post-2015 anti-vaccine

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tour of australia the Tenpenny caravan

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of hurt Hank let us know that the gang

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keen man Foundation and get rid of SIDS

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project ink are selling tickets to

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seminars caught birth baby and beyond a

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full day event in which Tenpenny is to

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be joined by others including homeopath

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Isaac golden and raising healthy

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children naturally a three hour

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presentation by Tenpenny additionally

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tickets are available for a series of

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special dinner events featuring a talk

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by Tenpenny music and special guests

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advocacy groups and concerned

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individuals including grassroots

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lobbyists stop the Australian

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vaccination Network the Parenthood and

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various associations of medical and

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public health practitioners responded to

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this news with a firm message that Shari

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Tenpenny and the anti-vaccination

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movement are spreading dangerous

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misinformation and present a threat to

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children and communities within days a

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social media campaign operating on

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twitter under the hashtag stop Tenpenny

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had formed spreading the word that an

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anti-vaccination asst twas set to her

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australia individuals contacted venues

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via facebook twitter email and phone to

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ensure that they realized who it was

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that they were booked to host several

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online petitions were set up so I'm

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directed at the venues requesting that

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they canceled their bookings and not

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facilitate the spread of anti-vaccine

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misinformation others directed at the

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minister for immigration Peter Dutton MP

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to request that you reconsider allowing

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sherry Tenpenny into the country

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following the recent deportation of

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pickup artists speaker Julian Blanc

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others contacted Peter Dutton asking him

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to check whether ten pennies visa

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allowed her to conduct paid speaking

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engagements the two approaches

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contacting the venues and contacting the

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Minister for immigration merged under

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the stop Tenpenny campaign and I think

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that it's important to note the one not

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everybody agrees on the same approach to

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halting tampines speaking engagements in

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Australia we're all united in our desire

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to stop anti-vaccination misinformation

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spreading and endangering children whose

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parents may choose to forgo vaccination

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and the wider community as a result the

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campaign to stop Tenpenny began to

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attract some attention a week ago on

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Sunday the fourth of January an article

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by Jane Hansen ran in the Daily

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Telegraph titled probe vaccine lobby

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fight to stop us anti-vaccination

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campaigner sherry Tenpenny lecturing in

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Australia on Monday the fifth of January

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more articles discussing the campaign

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appeared on Mamma Mia the Daily Mail

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news com au and in the Guardian and the

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ABCs flagship current affairs programme

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the 730 report ran a feature on the

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American anti-vaccination movement

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featuring an interview with dr. Paul

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Offit pediatrician specializing in

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infectious diseases which mentioned 10

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pennies planned tour of Australia the

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sub Tenpenny campaign gains speed

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rapidly by tuesday 12 more items of

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media coverage were published and I'm

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going to have to stop mentioning each of

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them here at this point because as this

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report goes to air by my count there are

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37 articles Radio pieces and reports in

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the media about the response to 10

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pennies proposed to her Australia I'll

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upload a list of links to news items to

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my blog at evidence please net along

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with the transcript of this report and

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I'd like to give huge kudos again at

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this point to blog a reasonable Hank who

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has been keeping a running list of news

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items which I've checked against my own

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running database to ensure i haven't

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missed any one notable item of tuesday's

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media coverage however was the segment

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that ran on the project network ten's

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panel discussing current affairs the

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media have been contacting some of the

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spokespeople involved with stop the

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Australian vaccination network for

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comment on 10 pennies tour and in order

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to encourage journalists not to

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contribute to false balance in the media

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many of the stop the ABM spokespeople

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refused to appear on television or radio

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when an anti

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nation campaigner has also been invited

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to take part in the discussion this

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approach has been largely successful

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with less air time given to

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anti-vaccination 'used when vaccination

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advocate dr. rachel dunlop who had been

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approached by the project for an

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interview learned that Meryl Dorie had

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also been invited on the show for an

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interview she withdrew her offer to

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appear explaining her position regarding

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media appearances alongside

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anti-vaccination Assad murali the

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producers took her stance on board when

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the project went to air on Tuesday

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evening there were no sound bites from

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Merrill Dory nor any other

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anti-vaccination campaigner the project

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did speak with jamila rizvi

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editor-in-chief of Mamma Mia and dr.

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00:12:34,210 --> 00:12:32,450
Rachel Dunlop then had our friend

276
00:12:36,580 --> 00:12:34,220
Allison Gaylord from the Northern Rivers

277
00:12:38,590 --> 00:12:36,590
vaccination supporters take part in the

278
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panel discussion live from her home in

279
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:41,270
malam Bimby here's the audio of the

280
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project segment calls to ban a prominent

281
00:12:48,730 --> 00:12:46,160
anti-vaccine campaigner from entering

282
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:48,740
the country Vodafone speaker is coming

283
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:50,810
to Australia to spread dangerous lies to

284
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a vulnerable public but sherry 10

285
00:12:57,190 --> 00:12:54,530
pennies no terrorist she's an

286
00:12:59,260 --> 00:12:57,200
anti-vaccination campaigner here's why

287
00:13:01,960 --> 00:12:59,270
many Ozzy's want to keep her out of the

288
00:13:04,330 --> 00:13:01,970
country this woman and the groups that

289
00:13:06,370 --> 00:13:04,340
she's associated with are quite simply a

290
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danger to Australian lives and

291
00:13:10,780 --> 00:13:08,360
particularly a danger to the lives of

292
00:13:13,300 --> 00:13:10,790
Australians children let's be really

293
00:13:15,610 --> 00:13:13,310
clear there's no evidence that vaccines

294
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cause any conditional illness and

295
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:18,050
there's abundant evidence that vaccines

296
00:13:22,570 --> 00:13:20,210
have saved hundreds of millions of lives

297
00:13:24,670 --> 00:13:22,580
this is one of those cases where on the

298
00:13:26,680 --> 00:13:24,680
one hand you've got science and on the

299
00:13:28,780 --> 00:13:26,690
other hand there really isn't another

300
00:13:31,060 --> 00:13:28,790
hand we know from years and years of

301
00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:31,070
research and thousands of publications

302
00:13:35,530 --> 00:13:33,410
that vaccines are overwhelmingly safe

303
00:13:36,759 --> 00:13:35,540
and effective but if the science is so

304
00:13:38,410 --> 00:13:36,769
clear why

305
00:13:41,019 --> 00:13:38,420
advocates afraid to live

306
00:13:42,819 --> 00:13:41,029
anti-vaccination campaigner Cherie Tim

307
00:13:45,189 --> 00:13:42,829
can you speak when you're a new parent

308
00:13:47,079 --> 00:13:45,199
you are very vulnerable to the

309
00:13:48,579 --> 00:13:47,089
information that's out there because you

310
00:13:50,379 --> 00:13:48,589
really do want to do the best by your

311
00:13:51,970 --> 00:13:50,389
child of course parents have the right

312
00:13:53,799 --> 00:13:51,980
to be concerned about a medical

313
00:13:55,539 --> 00:13:53,809
procedure but overwhelmingly they need

314
00:13:57,759 --> 00:13:55,549
access to accurate science-based

315
00:14:00,039 --> 00:13:57,769
information and this is not what they

316
00:14:02,199 --> 00:14:00,049
will get from dr. Tenpenny the problem

317
00:14:04,329 --> 00:14:02,209
with ten pennies message is it doesn't

318
00:14:06,999 --> 00:14:04,339
just affect her followers vaccine

319
00:14:09,519 --> 00:14:07,009
refusal leads to dangerous outbreaks yes

320
00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:09,529
today we learned two children and a 35

321
00:14:14,019 --> 00:14:11,569
year old man contracted measles that are

322
00:14:15,489 --> 00:14:14,029
Melbourne and graduation ceremonies the

323
00:14:17,650 --> 00:14:15,499
minister for immigration has the right

324
00:14:19,629 --> 00:14:17,660
to refuse entry into this country for

325
00:14:21,669 --> 00:14:19,639
someone who might pose a danger to our

326
00:14:23,530 --> 00:14:21,679
society and that is exactly what this

327
00:14:25,239 --> 00:14:23,540
woman does this is not so much an issue

328
00:14:27,549 --> 00:14:25,249
of freedom of speech it's an issue of

329
00:14:29,319 --> 00:14:27,559
Public Health and the people most at

330
00:14:31,539 --> 00:14:29,329
risk from this misinformation will be

331
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:31,549
children who may get sick and in extreme

332
00:14:37,090 --> 00:14:34,850
cases could die what do you think about

333
00:14:39,069 --> 00:14:37,100
letting her into the country Adam no I I

334
00:14:40,449 --> 00:14:39,079
don't think it's I don't think she

335
00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:40,459
should come out some people like I've

336
00:14:43,449 --> 00:14:41,839
seen some people arguing on facebook

337
00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:43,459
this is free speech will be out come and

338
00:14:47,319 --> 00:14:45,529
say you're free speech ends at the point

339
00:14:48,579 --> 00:14:47,329
that my kids could be dangerously on it

340
00:14:50,590 --> 00:14:48,589
makes me so angry it's such a

341
00:14:52,059 --> 00:14:50,600
first-world issue like this is people in

342
00:14:54,369 --> 00:14:52,069
the third world that would do anything

343
00:14:55,809 --> 00:14:54,379
to have access to the vaccines that some

344
00:14:58,119 --> 00:14:55,819
people are going hard I know they might

345
00:14:59,980 --> 00:14:58,129
cause you know autism when there is no

346
00:15:01,299 --> 00:14:59,990
proof that they cause autism like

347
00:15:03,369 --> 00:15:01,309
there's nothing there's no scientific

348
00:15:05,619 --> 00:15:03,379
evidence as Jamila said there but yet we

349
00:15:07,299 --> 00:15:05,629
allow the debate to continue I'm out of

350
00:15:09,129 --> 00:15:07,309
it I kids don't get the vote so we need

351
00:15:10,929 --> 00:15:09,139
to protect them and they're at risk more

352
00:15:12,609 --> 00:15:10,939
than anyone else and then I don't have

353
00:15:14,259 --> 00:15:12,619
kids myself but I make a compromised

354
00:15:18,850 --> 00:15:14,269
position so she can come on a boat

355
00:15:22,699 --> 00:15:21,230
elephant oh my children got whooping

356
00:15:24,679 --> 00:15:22,709
cough because other parents didn't

357
00:15:25,970 --> 00:15:24,689
vaccinate their children she lives in

358
00:15:28,129 --> 00:15:25,980
Mallen Bimby which has the lowest

359
00:15:30,530 --> 00:15:28,139
vaccination rate in New South Wales and

360
00:15:33,769 --> 00:15:30,540
she's so passionate she started her own

361
00:15:37,460 --> 00:15:33,779
pro vaccination group Alison tell us

362
00:15:40,819 --> 00:15:37,470
your story um I didn't have to address

363
00:15:44,329 --> 00:15:40,829
the subject of vaccination until 2006

364
00:15:46,730 --> 00:15:44,339
when I had my first child and I then

365
00:15:48,559 --> 00:15:46,740
discovered that i was living in an area

366
00:15:50,150 --> 00:15:48,569
where a number of people choose not to

367
00:15:52,460 --> 00:15:50,160
vaccinate and I really couldn't

368
00:15:56,660 --> 00:15:52,470
understand it I was always going to

369
00:16:01,489 --> 00:15:56,670
vaccinate I was quite shocked and I had

370
00:16:03,739 --> 00:16:01,499
my second in 2009 in 2012 they both

371
00:16:06,769 --> 00:16:03,749
contracted whooping cough they were

372
00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:06,779
fully vaccinated for their ages the

373
00:16:12,970 --> 00:16:09,839
reason they caught whooping cough is the

374
00:16:17,059 --> 00:16:12,980
herd immunity here is just so low that

375
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:17,069
there's no heard protection pearl

376
00:16:23,090 --> 00:16:20,490
immunity is when a certain percentage of

377
00:16:27,949 --> 00:16:23,100
the population of the area that you're

378
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:27,959
living in are vaccinated and then it

379
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:31,050
stops all those bugs and germs and

380
00:16:38,030 --> 00:16:35,250
viruses penetrating in and causing an

381
00:16:40,759 --> 00:16:38,040
outbreak and how high does the herd

382
00:16:43,610 --> 00:16:40,769
immunity need to be for it to be

383
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:43,620
effective well ideally you'd need a

384
00:16:48,199 --> 00:16:46,290
minimum of ninety-five percent I believe

385
00:16:49,610 --> 00:16:48,209
that you also live quite an alternative

386
00:16:51,470 --> 00:16:49,620
lifestyle that you believe in a lot of

387
00:16:52,879 --> 00:16:51,480
the things that you know your other

388
00:16:54,740 --> 00:16:52,889
friends and then people live in that

389
00:16:56,449 --> 00:16:54,750
area do but this is one issue where you

390
00:17:01,309 --> 00:16:56,459
just don't think there is any debate on

391
00:17:04,039 --> 00:17:01,319
no that's right um back in 2006 with my

392
00:17:10,399 --> 00:17:04,049
first child she ate nothing but organic

393
00:17:14,539 --> 00:17:10,409
produce I used cloth nappies amber

394
00:17:16,579 --> 00:17:14,549
teething necklaces you know I just

395
00:17:19,279 --> 00:17:16,589
wanted I just want to show people that

396
00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:19,289
no matter what your lifestyle is be it

397
00:17:23,299 --> 00:17:21,360
how you live your life what you do with

398
00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:23,309
your life who you pray to doesn't matter

399
00:17:28,580 --> 00:17:26,880
you can still vaccinate Alison thanks so

400
00:17:34,289 --> 00:17:28,590
much for speaking to us tonight

401
00:17:36,390 --> 00:17:34,299
I find it incredibly heartening that the

402
00:17:38,250 --> 00:17:36,400
media seem to be very much on board with

403
00:17:40,830 --> 00:17:38,260
promoting an evidence-based approach to

404
00:17:42,690 --> 00:17:40,840
the topic of vaccination possibly giving

405
00:17:46,860 --> 00:17:42,700
up a little sensationalism along the way

406
00:17:48,299 --> 00:17:46,870
on Wednesday one radio station did air a

407
00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:48,309
live interview with a prominent

408
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:50,320
Australian anti-vaccination campaigner

409
00:17:53,730 --> 00:17:52,450
but promptly removed it from their

410
00:17:55,710 --> 00:17:53,740
website when it was brought to their

411
00:17:57,539 --> 00:17:55,720
attention that said anti-vaccination

412
00:18:01,140 --> 00:17:57,549
'used made statements which were

413
00:18:04,289 --> 00:18:01,150
provably false on Thursday another radio

414
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:04,299
station 3aw decided to interview merrill

415
00:18:09,299 --> 00:18:07,090
dory now this interview actually got

416
00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:09,309
some media coverage of its own there's

417
00:18:13,799 --> 00:18:11,049
an article in The Guardian written by

418
00:18:16,890 --> 00:18:13,809
Oliver Millman titled anti-vaccination

419
00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:16,900
campaigner compares critics to Charlie

420
00:18:26,010 --> 00:18:22,510
Hebdo attackers yes really meanwhile

421
00:18:27,780 --> 00:18:26,020
other news was unfolding late Wednesday

422
00:18:30,060 --> 00:18:27,790
the first reports began to go public

423
00:18:32,039 --> 00:18:30,070
that venues had been booked to host

424
00:18:35,310 --> 00:18:32,049
events featuring sherry Tenpenny were

425
00:18:37,770 --> 00:18:35,320
cancelling their bookings kerela golf

426
00:18:39,390 --> 00:18:37,780
and social club in sydney announced that

427
00:18:41,610 --> 00:18:39,400
they are not going to host Sherri ten

428
00:18:43,140 --> 00:18:41,620
pennies event stating that they did not

429
00:18:46,169 --> 00:18:43,150
wish to be associated with such

430
00:18:48,060 --> 00:18:46,179
controversial subject matter Dennis

431
00:18:49,770 --> 00:18:48,070
Skinner manager of Kerala golf and

432
00:18:51,450 --> 00:18:49,780
social club said that there was no

433
00:18:55,260 --> 00:18:51,460
indication it was an anti-vaccination

434
00:18:56,970 --> 00:18:55,270
booking when it was made quote you know

435
00:18:59,640 --> 00:18:56,980
it was booked as a health and well-being

436
00:19:03,230 --> 00:18:59,650
seminar for a get rid of SIDS sudden

437
00:19:05,580 --> 00:19:03,240
infant death syndrome project and quote

438
00:19:08,549 --> 00:19:05,590
indeed it seems that the bookings made

439
00:19:11,130 --> 00:19:08,559
by the ganking man Foundation and get

440
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:11,140
rid of SIDS project ink were not open

441
00:19:15,690 --> 00:19:13,090
about the nature of the information to

442
00:19:18,450 --> 00:19:15,700
be presented at the events as this

443
00:19:20,130 --> 00:19:18,460
report goes to air five of the seven

444
00:19:22,049 --> 00:19:20,140
venues who'd been booked to host

445
00:19:25,020 --> 00:19:22,059
seminars and dinners have cancelled

446
00:19:26,820 --> 00:19:25,030
their bookings public statements from

447
00:19:29,580 --> 00:19:26,830
the venues are collected on reasonable

448
00:19:32,010 --> 00:19:29,590
hanks blog in a post titled venues

449
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:32,020
confirm being misled by anti-vaccine

450
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:36,330
messenger 10 Bernie Torah messenger

451
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:39,010
while the gang can man Foundation and

452
00:19:41,970 --> 00:19:41,410
get rid of SIDS project websites don't

453
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:41,980
have any

454
00:19:46,020 --> 00:19:43,450
times published to let the public know

455
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:46,030
who is behind them indeed I haven't been

456
00:19:49,070 --> 00:19:47,650
able to find any evidence that the gang

457
00:19:51,810 --> 00:19:49,080
came mam foundation is a registered

458
00:19:53,669 --> 00:19:51,820
organization at all several media

459
00:19:55,950 --> 00:19:53,679
reports have revealed that the Tenpenny

460
00:19:58,289 --> 00:19:55,960
tour is being organized by Stephanie

461
00:20:00,900 --> 00:19:58,299
messenger author of the anti-vaccination

462
00:20:03,930 --> 00:20:00,910
book for children Melanie's marvelous

463
00:20:06,330 --> 00:20:03,940
measles further money for tickets

464
00:20:09,030 --> 00:20:06,340
purchased by her Eventbrite is paid

465
00:20:12,270 --> 00:20:09,040
directly into a paypal account held by

466
00:20:14,190 --> 00:20:12,280
Stephanie messenger with so many venues

467
00:20:16,909 --> 00:20:14,200
cancelling there is uncertainty as to

468
00:20:19,350 --> 00:20:16,919
whether the Tenpenny tool will go ahead

469
00:20:20,970 --> 00:20:19,360
there have been no statements made on

470
00:20:23,610 --> 00:20:20,980
the gang chem man foundation's website

471
00:20:26,010 --> 00:20:23,620
or facebook page since venues began to

472
00:20:29,159 --> 00:20:26,020
cancel not on the birth baby and be on

473
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:29,169
facebook event page no emails have been

474
00:20:33,539 --> 00:20:31,690
sent to ticket holders the only

475
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:33,549
statements are been able to find are on

476
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:35,530
the ticket style site hosted by

477
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:37,840
Eventbrite on the pages of the canceled

478
00:20:43,919 --> 00:20:41,890
events under venue quote venue to be

479
00:20:46,169 --> 00:20:43,929
decided please book your ticket and

480
00:20:48,330 --> 00:20:46,179
you'll be notified in due course of the

481
00:20:50,490 --> 00:20:48,340
venue the venue has withdrawn our

482
00:20:53,250 --> 00:20:50,500
bookings due to bullying by some denying

483
00:20:55,140 --> 00:20:53,260
you the right to informed consent see

484
00:20:58,830 --> 00:20:55,150
more in the events details on the left

485
00:21:03,539 --> 00:20:58,840
and quote and in the events details

486
00:21:05,070 --> 00:21:03,549
section quote important note the venue

487
00:21:07,620 --> 00:21:05,080
has cancelled the booking due to

488
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:07,630
bullying by vested interests who do not

489
00:21:12,539 --> 00:21:10,090
believe in informed consent free speech

490
00:21:14,610 --> 00:21:12,549
and respect for others rights and who

491
00:21:17,549 --> 00:21:14,620
appear to support censorship of thought

492
00:21:19,950 --> 00:21:17,559
and science a new venue is being sought

493
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:19,960
now so please book your tickets you'll

494
00:21:26,970 --> 00:21:22,210
be notified of the new venue in due time

495
00:21:28,830 --> 00:21:26,980
thank you end quote there has been a lot

496
00:21:31,860 --> 00:21:28,840
of talk about free speech and censorship

497
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:31,870
during the stock Tenpenny campaign from

498
00:21:36,150 --> 00:21:33,970
the anti-vaccination asst among

499
00:21:38,850 --> 00:21:36,160
supporters of stop Tenpenny campaign and

500
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:38,860
from one of the two venues who are still

501
00:21:43,799 --> 00:21:42,370
booked to host Tenpenny events I'd like

502
00:21:45,930 --> 00:21:43,809
to finish off today with a statement

503
00:21:48,270 --> 00:21:45,940
from the stop the Australian vaccination

504
00:21:52,530 --> 00:21:48,280
network admins published today the 11th

505
00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:52,540
of January quote there seems to have

506
00:21:55,490 --> 00:21:54,370
been some misunderstanding of what our

507
00:21:58,340 --> 00:21:55,500
views and intend

508
00:21:59,810 --> 00:21:58,350
regarding tampines visit this

509
00:22:01,910 --> 00:21:59,820
misunderstanding has been further

510
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:01,920
confused in the media by the implication

511
00:22:07,100 --> 00:22:04,650
of s avian and creating the petitions

512
00:22:10,670 --> 00:22:07,110
regarding Tenpenny when in fact it has

513
00:22:12,590 --> 00:22:10,680
been s avian supporters the shifting of

514
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:12,600
the debate to free speech and visas is

515
00:22:17,180 --> 00:22:15,210
getting away from the point this is all

516
00:22:19,340 --> 00:22:17,190
about Ozzy's not wanting cranks to come

517
00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:19,350
here spreading lies that kill kids and

518
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:21,600
if she comes anyway to limit the damage

519
00:22:25,970 --> 00:22:24,330
she causes just like we have prevented

520
00:22:28,190 --> 00:22:25,980
other people of poor character from

521
00:22:30,590 --> 00:22:28,200
coming here to speak Tenpenny is not

522
00:22:32,510 --> 00:22:30,600
being gagged she'll continue to sprout

523
00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:32,520
her delusions from all the forums

524
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:35,120
available to her just as before

525
00:22:40,700 --> 00:22:37,410
Australia is not obligated to provide

526
00:22:43,490 --> 00:22:40,710
her with an additional one some would

527
00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:43,500
have us challenge Tenpenny with fats the

528
00:22:47,150 --> 00:22:45,510
fact is that the evidence for the safety

529
00:22:49,370 --> 00:22:47,160
and efficacy of vaccination is

530
00:22:51,830 --> 00:22:49,380
overwhelming and obvious to all sensible

531
00:22:54,500 --> 00:22:51,840
people we don't need to debate the

532
00:22:56,390 --> 00:22:54,510
obvious and anti-vaccine activists use

533
00:22:58,130 --> 00:22:56,400
public debate as a platform for

534
00:23:00,200 --> 00:22:58,140
spreading and legitimizing their lives

535
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:00,210
misinformation and medical conspiracy

536
00:23:07,010 --> 00:23:03,930
theories crying freedom of speech is

537
00:23:08,420 --> 00:23:07,020
also a classic anti-vaccine to deflect

538
00:23:11,690 --> 00:23:08,430
criticism of their misinformation

539
00:23:14,420 --> 00:23:11,700
serious science and lies it is a

540
00:23:17,810 --> 00:23:14,430
well-worn tactic of the AVS N and their

541
00:23:19,850 --> 00:23:17,820
public officer the message or speech of

542
00:23:23,060 --> 00:23:19,860
the avian has already been limited by

543
00:23:25,550 --> 00:23:23,070
the H Triple C warning why is 10 pennies

544
00:23:29,180 --> 00:23:25,560
message which is exactly the same as the

545
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:29,190
abs n any different free speech protects

546
00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:31,410
us from persecution and punishment but

547
00:23:37,670 --> 00:23:34,320
not criticism it does not guarantee a

548
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:37,680
platform anywhere you like in democracy

549
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:39,690
is you have the right to speak you don't

550
00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:42,210
have the right to be heard free speech

551
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:44,400
also extends to venues having the right

552
00:23:50,090 --> 00:23:47,970
to say no to dr. Tenpenny we support

553
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:50,100
free speech but we also support the

554
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:52,290
right to publicly criticize and counter

555
00:23:58,340 --> 00:23:54,690
people who want to spread fear hysteria

556
00:24:02,690 --> 00:23:58,350
and misinformation as avian admins end

557
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:02,700
quote again all links mentioned in this

558
00:24:08,730 --> 00:24:05,130
report and a transcript can be found on

559
00:24:10,530 --> 00:24:08,740
my blog at evidence please net

560
00:24:12,510 --> 00:24:10,540
skeptic zone we'll have an update where

561
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:12,520
more news comes to hand on 10 Benny's

562
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:15,610
tour of australia until then I'd like to

563
00:24:20,010 --> 00:24:17,410
acknowledge the tireless work of many

564
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:20,020
vaccination advocates including the

565
00:24:24,510 --> 00:24:22,450
spokespeople first stop the avian the

566
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:24,520
bloggers those have kept an eye out for

567
00:24:28,980 --> 00:24:27,370
reports and captured audio and video and

568
00:24:31,470 --> 00:24:28,990
everyone who's taken the time to engage

569
00:24:33,990 --> 00:24:31,480
with the media the venues and on social

570
00:24:36,299 --> 00:24:34,000
media with the general public this has

571
00:24:38,610 --> 00:24:36,309
been an amazingly successful campaign so

572
00:24:40,919 --> 00:24:38,620
far and is once again showing that we

573
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:40,929
can effectively ban together and make a

574
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:42,970
stand for evidence-based medicine and

575
00:25:00,030 --> 00:24:56,520
the skeptic zone is brought to you by

576
00:25:03,450 --> 00:25:00,040
dr. Bob's trivia quiz visit dr. Bob's

577
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:03,460
quiz wordpress.com and see if you can

578
00:25:12,210 --> 00:25:09,610
match wits with dr. Bob welcome to all

579
00:25:14,700 --> 00:25:12,220
weakened science from RA oz bringing you

580
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:14,710
the signs you need to know everyone

581
00:25:18,690 --> 00:25:16,570
knows that Joker the one that can't

582
00:25:20,610 --> 00:25:18,700
resist an April Fool's prank or loves

583
00:25:23,700 --> 00:25:20,620
winding people up with a fanciful story

584
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:23,710
it's time to look at how and why people

585
00:25:32,130 --> 00:25:30,130
lie so why do we lie believe it or not

586
00:25:35,130 --> 00:25:32,140
there is actually research looked into

587
00:25:37,110 --> 00:25:35,140
why and how humans lie one possible

588
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:37,120
explanation is that lying is tide of

589
00:25:41,250 --> 00:25:39,370
their self esteem as soon as someone's

590
00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:41,260
self-esteem is threatened they begin to

591
00:25:45,270 --> 00:25:43,510
tell bigger and more complicated lies I

592
00:25:47,610 --> 00:25:45,280
once play in the band and we played at

593
00:25:49,710 --> 00:25:47,620
glastonbury lie the other main reason

594
00:25:51,570 --> 00:25:49,720
humans lie is to protect ourselves or

595
00:25:54,870 --> 00:25:51,580
someone we know from something bad

596
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:54,880
happening or to protect privacy hey no I

597
00:26:00,180 --> 00:25:57,610
don't know the current is lie as humans

598
00:26:02,490 --> 00:26:00,190
we also deceive ourselves experiments

599
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:02,500
show people lie without realizing they

600
00:26:06,750 --> 00:26:04,570
only see their lives when they watch a

601
00:26:12,450 --> 00:26:06,760
recording of themselves not me though

602
00:26:14,940 --> 00:26:12,460
everything I've said is true but the

603
00:26:17,430 --> 00:26:14,950
people always lie the same way all know

604
00:26:20,790 --> 00:26:17,440
people lie more online than they do

605
00:26:22,770 --> 00:26:20,800
face-to-face in an experiment people are

606
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:22,780
found to lie more often in an email

607
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:24,610
exchange than an online messenger

608
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:26,530
conversation and both more than

609
00:26:33,090 --> 00:26:30,010
face-to-face and was about online dating

610
00:26:35,670 --> 00:26:33,100
yep we lie there too with women lying

611
00:26:37,530 --> 00:26:35,680
slightly more than men however men lie

612
00:26:39,660 --> 00:26:37,540
more than women in games with a small

613
00:26:41,850 --> 00:26:39,670
monetary reward but when the stakes are

614
00:26:44,730 --> 00:26:41,860
increased men and women lie the same

615
00:26:46,890 --> 00:26:44,740
amount and teenagers yep research shows

616
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:46,900
they lie more than university students

617
00:26:52,170 --> 00:26:49,090
or adults or maybe they're just more

618
00:26:55,330 --> 00:26:52,180
honest about their lying and now for

619
00:26:58,129 --> 00:26:55,340
fast facts about spotting a liar

620
00:26:59,989 --> 00:26:58,139
one experiment has shown different types

621
00:27:02,149 --> 00:26:59,999
of hand gestures maybe the way to spot

622
00:27:04,249 --> 00:27:02,159
liars truth tellers use rhythmic

623
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:04,259
gestures and lies speech prompting

624
00:27:08,239 --> 00:27:06,570
gestures one tactic that might trip up

625
00:27:10,669 --> 00:27:08,249
lies is by getting them to tell their

626
00:27:12,739 --> 00:27:10,679
story in reverse the brain effort

627
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:12,749
required to invent a story in Reverse is

628
00:27:17,570 --> 00:27:15,450
far higher than forwards a third way to

629
00:27:19,850 --> 00:27:17,580
tell a liar get them to draw a picture

630
00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:19,860
Liars generally don't prepare for that

631
00:27:24,649 --> 00:27:22,110
so can find it tough to draw their story

632
00:27:27,409 --> 00:27:24,659
and finally the old myth about lies

633
00:27:29,509 --> 00:27:27,419
avoiding eye contact is not true in fact

634
00:27:31,729 --> 00:27:29,519
too much eye contact may be a giveaway

635
00:27:34,519 --> 00:27:31,739
as liar looks to see if you're believing

636
00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:34,529
their story that's it for this week in

637
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:37,049
science more information on honesty and

638
00:27:45,529 --> 00:27:41,369
lying go to the RLS websites are I aus

639
00:27:48,470 --> 00:27:45,539
org a you follow us on twitter at ra oz

640
00:27:58,770 --> 00:27:48,480
and like us on facebook i'm ben lewis

641
00:28:03,660 --> 00:28:01,530
hi I'm Finn and I'm Rebecca and where

642
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:03,670
the skipper cons skipper Collins is an

643
00:28:07,110 --> 00:28:05,410
Irish podcast by the Dublin skeptics

644
00:28:08,670 --> 00:28:07,120
society it takes a conversational

645
00:28:09,930 --> 00:28:08,680
reverent look at science news and

646
00:28:13,410 --> 00:28:09,940
skeptical topics from an Irish

647
00:28:27,980 --> 00:28:13,420
perspective you can find us at WWDC

648
00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:31,950
it's the raw skeptic report with Heidi

649
00:28:44,460 --> 00:28:41,440
Robertson hi everyone last week myself

650
00:28:46,350 --> 00:28:44,470
and Allison Gaylord another admin at the

651
00:28:49,289 --> 00:28:46,360
Northern Rivers vaccination supporters

652
00:28:51,060 --> 00:28:49,299
group we're interviewed by journalists

653
00:28:54,810 --> 00:28:51,070
Jane Hansen from The Daily Telegraph

654
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:54,820
newspaper now as you may know Allison

655
00:28:57,930 --> 00:28:56,320
and I live in the region of Australia

656
00:29:01,680 --> 00:28:57,940
that has the lowest rate of unvaccinated

657
00:29:03,330 --> 00:29:01,690
kids at just under fifty percent this

658
00:29:06,570 --> 00:29:03,340
northern rivers area of New South Wales

659
00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:06,580
also has the reputation of having many

660
00:29:11,730 --> 00:29:08,910
here who embrace so-called alternative

661
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:11,740
lifestyles with alternative medicines

662
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:14,290
such as homeopathy and naturopathy being

663
00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:17,770
a big part of their lives considering

664
00:29:21,630 --> 00:29:19,600
this is the skeptic sign I thought it

665
00:29:25,140 --> 00:29:21,640
would be wise to add a trigger warning

666
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:25,150
at this point for all evidence demanding

667
00:29:32,159 --> 00:29:29,650
science loving skeptics this article I'm

668
00:29:34,710 --> 00:29:32,169
about to read out will include various

669
00:29:37,530 --> 00:29:34,720
alternative therapies that I have tried

670
00:29:40,140 --> 00:29:37,540
during my lifetime not as a skeptic

671
00:29:42,450 --> 00:29:40,150
investigating them but as a person with

672
00:29:45,659 --> 00:29:42,460
severely underdeveloped critical

673
00:29:48,110 --> 00:29:45,669
thinking skills and the list of ones

674
00:29:52,260 --> 00:29:48,120
mentioned is by no means exhaustive

675
00:29:55,770 --> 00:29:52,270
there I've said it please be gentle with

676
00:29:58,020 --> 00:29:55,780
me so what we wanted to get across in

677
00:30:00,330 --> 00:29:58,030
this article was that an alternative

678
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:00,340
lifestyle and vaccinating your kids do

679
00:30:05,070 --> 00:30:03,130
not have to be mutually exclusive so

680
00:30:07,409 --> 00:30:05,080
telling our own stories of how we lived

681
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:07,419
aspects of that lifestyle and still

682
00:30:12,659 --> 00:30:09,450
vaccinated our kids was we thought

683
00:30:15,870 --> 00:30:12,669
important unfortunately homeo

684
00:30:18,990 --> 00:30:15,880
prophylaxis is commonly used here as the

685
00:30:20,850 --> 00:30:19,000
quote/unquote natural way to go rather

686
00:30:24,810 --> 00:30:20,860
than injecting children with perceived

687
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:24,820
unnatural chemicals and toxins we need

688
00:30:28,980 --> 00:30:26,010
to get the message across that

689
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:28,990
vaccination is the best way the only way

690
00:30:31,290 --> 00:30:30,370
to effectively put

691
00:30:34,049 --> 00:30:31,300
take two people against

692
00:30:36,390 --> 00:30:34,059
vaccine-preventable diseases and to

693
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:36,400
emphasize the important role that herd

694
00:30:40,410 --> 00:30:38,770
immunity plays we don't fool ourselves

695
00:30:42,810 --> 00:30:40,420
into thinking that the staunch

696
00:30:44,549 --> 00:30:42,820
anti-vaccination proponents will listen

697
00:30:46,830 --> 00:30:44,559
to what we are saying and have a light

698
00:30:48,420 --> 00:30:46,840
bulb moment we know they're not going to

699
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:48,430
go out and vaccinate themselves and

700
00:30:53,549 --> 00:30:51,130
their children but their offense sitters

701
00:30:55,230 --> 00:30:53,559
there are three changes and see changes

702
00:30:57,510 --> 00:30:55,240
that flock to this area and find

703
00:30:59,700 --> 00:30:57,520
themselves caught up in the alternative

704
00:31:01,620 --> 00:30:59,710
lifestyle ideology and there are

705
00:31:03,330 --> 00:31:01,630
teenagers the next generations who will

706
00:31:05,820 --> 00:31:03,340
have to make the decision of whether or

707
00:31:09,210 --> 00:31:05,830
not to vaccinate their kids these are

708
00:31:13,049 --> 00:31:09,220
the groups we are trying to reach ok so

709
00:31:15,750 --> 00:31:13,059
I'll read the article it's called ex

710
00:31:19,710 --> 00:31:15,760
hippies blow whistle on anti-vaccination

711
00:31:24,390 --> 00:31:19,720
myths by Jane Hansen sunday telegraph

712
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:24,400
January the 4th 2015 Heidi Robertson is

713
00:31:28,919 --> 00:31:26,290
the daughter of a Reiki Master and

714
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:28,929
Allison Gaylord once wore a nose ring

715
00:31:34,980 --> 00:31:31,210
and clad her babies in cloth nappies and

716
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:34,990
amber beads now the pair represents the

717
00:31:40,710 --> 00:31:37,840
real alternative alternates they believe

718
00:31:43,049 --> 00:31:40,720
in vaccination and they are fighting in

719
00:31:47,580 --> 00:31:43,059
mulund Bimby with the lowest vaccination

720
00:31:49,470 --> 00:31:47,590
rate in Australia moves gaylord and mrs.

721
00:31:51,390 --> 00:31:49,480
Robertson are the faces behind the

722
00:31:53,340 --> 00:31:51,400
Northern Rivers vaccination supporters

723
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:53,350
group set up to counter the

724
00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:55,570
misinformation peddled by another loud

725
00:32:01,350 --> 00:31:58,090
local whose influence has now been

726
00:32:06,090 --> 00:32:01,360
seriously eroded Merrill Dory from the

727
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:06,100
anti-vaccination group the AVS n but

728
00:32:11,250 --> 00:32:08,410
their message is clear and simple it's

729
00:32:15,870 --> 00:32:11,260
ok to be alternative but it's also okay

730
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:15,880
to vaccinate while Ms Gaylord always

731
00:32:20,850 --> 00:32:18,610
believed in vaccination when her

732
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:20,860
daughter Alice was born nine years ago a

733
00:32:26,010 --> 00:32:23,050
friend ambushed her with an introduction

734
00:32:29,580 --> 00:32:26,020
to miss Dorry for an auntie vaccination

735
00:32:32,070 --> 00:32:29,590
talk it made me angry I was going to

736
00:32:34,740 --> 00:32:32,080
vaccinate it was a no-brainer she said

737
00:32:37,530 --> 00:32:34,750
ms Gaylord left her mother's group

738
00:32:40,450 --> 00:32:37,540
because quote they were all buying into

739
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:40,460
not vaccinating and I felt alone in

740
00:32:45,190 --> 00:32:42,530
what both have fully immunized daughters

741
00:32:47,860 --> 00:32:45,200
were infected in a 2012 whooping cough

742
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:47,870
epidemic that hit hardest in northern

743
00:32:52,780 --> 00:32:49,370
New South Wales due to low vaccination

744
00:32:54,430 --> 00:32:52,790
quote I was distraught I felt I was

745
00:32:56,650 --> 00:32:54,440
doing the right thing to protect them

746
00:32:59,200 --> 00:32:56,660
and other people weren't there was no

747
00:33:03,550 --> 00:32:59,210
herd immunity and it was inevitable end

748
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:03,560
quote mrs. Robertson was left broke and

749
00:33:08,860 --> 00:33:05,930
disillusioned by years of alternative

750
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:08,870
therapies for her chronic fatigue quote

751
00:33:14,290 --> 00:33:11,930
i went to naturopaths had tissue and

752
00:33:18,370 --> 00:33:14,300
hair mineral analysis live blood

753
00:33:20,830 --> 00:33:18,380
analysis kinesiology and Reiki I signed

754
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:20,840
up for a chiropractor for a year I spent

755
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:24,890
thousands of dollars end quote a new GP

756
00:33:31,150 --> 00:33:27,130
diagnosed depression and prescribed

757
00:33:32,950 --> 00:33:31,160
life-changing medication quote I had

758
00:33:35,470 --> 00:33:32,960
been so gullible without thinking it

759
00:33:39,820 --> 00:33:35,480
through critically and then realized it

760
00:33:41,260 --> 00:33:39,830
was blue in quote she said both women

761
00:33:44,710 --> 00:33:41,270
have suffered attacks from

762
00:33:46,540 --> 00:33:44,720
anti-vaccination believers quote these

763
00:33:48,460 --> 00:33:46,550
peace-loving tolerant people can be

764
00:33:51,340 --> 00:33:48,470
extremely nasty on the subject of

765
00:33:54,250 --> 00:33:51,350
vaccination so we try to be calm and

766
00:33:57,430 --> 00:33:54,260
polite and rational mrs. Robertson said

767
00:33:59,170 --> 00:33:57,440
so there's the article the backlash from

768
00:34:03,130 --> 00:33:59,180
the anti-vaccination crowd was always

769
00:34:05,110 --> 00:34:03,140
going to be inevitable so that's okay

770
00:34:07,030 --> 00:34:05,120
i'm happy to say that i was prepared for

771
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:07,040
it and for the first time i was not in

772
00:34:11,580 --> 00:34:09,370
the least bit fazed by the attacks and

773
00:34:14,830 --> 00:34:11,590
Alison too has come out unscathed

774
00:34:16,630 --> 00:34:14,840
emotionally it was interesting to see

775
00:34:19,390 --> 00:34:16,640
how many people pounced on the fact that

776
00:34:21,430 --> 00:34:19,400
vaccines don't work because Allison's

777
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:21,440
fully immunized kids contracted whooping

778
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:23,690
cough this indicates a basic

779
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:25,970
misunderstanding of how vaccines do and

780
00:34:31,540 --> 00:34:28,970
don't work for those of you who are new

781
00:34:32,950 --> 00:34:31,550
to this topic he's the reason why it is

782
00:34:36,730 --> 00:34:32,960
not surprising that the kids got

783
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:36,740
whooping cough firstly we need a better

784
00:34:41,620 --> 00:34:39,440
pertussis or whooping cough vaccine the

785
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:41,630
current vaccine we have is less

786
00:34:46,300 --> 00:34:43,450
effective than the old one that was used

787
00:34:48,370 --> 00:34:46,310
but the old one was ditched because of a

788
00:34:50,500 --> 00:34:48,380
perceived unacceptable incidents of

789
00:34:51,940 --> 00:34:50,510
fevers and localized reactions such as

790
00:34:53,940 --> 00:34:51,950
redness and swelling in children

791
00:34:56,819 --> 00:34:53,950
following the shot

792
00:34:59,910 --> 00:34:56,829
so the current vaccine has about eighty

793
00:35:02,630 --> 00:34:59,920
four percent efficacy rate for kids who

794
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:02,640
have had the course of three shots

795
00:35:07,349 --> 00:35:05,050
another important thing to remember is

796
00:35:09,599 --> 00:35:07,359
that the pertussis vaccine is better at

797
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:09,609
attenuating or weakening the disease

798
00:35:15,060 --> 00:35:12,480
rather than preventing it entirely

799
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:15,070
secondly the herd immunity levels need

800
00:35:19,380 --> 00:35:16,690
to be up around the ninety-five percent

801
00:35:22,319 --> 00:35:19,390
mark to limit the spread of disease in a

802
00:35:24,270 --> 00:35:22,329
community mark Chris lip over at

803
00:35:26,250 --> 00:35:24,280
science-based medicine wrote an

804
00:35:29,370 --> 00:35:26,260
excellent blog on a herd immunity and I

805
00:35:31,410 --> 00:35:29,380
quote from that the decrease in the

806
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:31,420
number of disease carriers is vital to

807
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:33,930
the prevention of bacterial infections

808
00:35:38,910 --> 00:35:36,010
vaccines are never one hundred percent

809
00:35:41,550 --> 00:35:38,920
effective some people are genetically

810
00:35:43,650 --> 00:35:41,560
unable to respond to the vaccine some

811
00:35:46,230 --> 00:35:43,660
have immunodeficiencies that preclude

812
00:35:48,839 --> 00:35:46,240
receiving vaccines or developing a

813
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:48,849
response to the vaccine some haven't

814
00:35:53,250 --> 00:35:50,770
gotten around to vaccination or too

815
00:35:55,140 --> 00:35:53,260
young to receive a vaccine if you

816
00:35:57,750 --> 00:35:55,150
vaccinate a large number of people

817
00:35:59,760 --> 00:35:57,760
besides preventing disease in an

818
00:36:02,550 --> 00:35:59,770
individual it helps prevent the

819
00:36:06,450 --> 00:36:02,560
vulnerable in a population vaccines

820
00:36:07,770 --> 00:36:06,460
prevent disease propagation now remember

821
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:07,780
that Mullen Bimby where the kids

822
00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:09,130
contracted whooping cough has

823
00:36:14,490 --> 00:36:10,720
vaccination rates that are worse than

824
00:36:16,170 --> 00:36:14,500
South Sudan at under fifty percent it is

825
00:36:19,170 --> 00:36:16,180
not at all surprising that the kids

826
00:36:21,450 --> 00:36:19,180
contracted whooping cough people also

827
00:36:24,150 --> 00:36:21,460
lepton to the fact that i apparently had

828
00:36:26,460 --> 00:36:24,160
chronic fatigue syndrome when in fact it

829
00:36:29,370 --> 00:36:26,470
didn't say that at all i merely had

830
00:36:31,230 --> 00:36:29,380
fatigue that was chronic anyway trying

831
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:31,240
to discredit us with personal attacks

832
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:33,130
and comments that have nothing to do

833
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:34,450
with the issue at hand has been a

834
00:36:39,750 --> 00:36:37,690
typical response so here are some of the

835
00:36:41,849 --> 00:36:39,760
comments in various threads on facebook

836
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:41,859
after the article went online and please

837
00:36:46,620 --> 00:36:44,560
note i am reading these comments exactly

838
00:36:48,089 --> 00:36:46,630
as they were written so i take no

839
00:36:50,790 --> 00:36:48,099
responsibility for the incoherence

840
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:50,800
and/or poor grammar that is evident in

841
00:36:55,859 --> 00:36:53,290
the following both her fully immunized

842
00:36:57,329 --> 00:36:55,869
daughters were infected in a 2012

843
00:37:00,809 --> 00:36:57,339
epidemic and they didn't learn their

844
00:37:04,319 --> 00:37:00,819
lesson that's called bad parenting they

845
00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:04,329
were never hippies just trolls being an

846
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:06,250
ex hippie makes you a god of vaccine

847
00:37:10,590 --> 00:37:07,810
knowledge please and

848
00:37:15,230 --> 00:37:10,600
opinion with nothing to back it up these

849
00:37:18,570 --> 00:37:15,240
traitors piece of bleep our yd

850
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:18,580
population is a good idea sometimes the

851
00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:21,010
world is full of scum like this they'd

852
00:37:26,250 --> 00:37:23,200
sell their souls for cash and misinform

853
00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:26,260
people it's insane kind of scary you

854
00:37:30,660 --> 00:37:28,510
think she's not sharpest crayon in the

855
00:37:33,380 --> 00:37:30,670
box considering she thinks just like

856
00:37:37,590 --> 00:37:33,390
most doctors and government officials

857
00:37:39,690 --> 00:37:37,600
capslock scary we used to have to do

858
00:37:41,940 --> 00:37:39,700
logic statements at school statement a

859
00:37:44,670 --> 00:37:41,950
statement be what is the most logical

860
00:37:46,770 --> 00:37:44,680
conclusion a people are vaccinated be

861
00:37:49,350 --> 00:37:46,780
they are catching diseases from

862
00:37:52,050 --> 00:37:49,360
unvaccinated people logical conclusion

863
00:37:56,550 --> 00:37:52,060
their vaccinations do not work caps lock

864
00:37:58,770 --> 00:37:56,560
logic traitors to us all her full evac

865
00:38:00,780 --> 00:37:58,780
skids got whooping cough no surprise

866
00:38:03,210 --> 00:38:00,790
there she was diagnosed with depression

867
00:38:06,030 --> 00:38:03,220
and put on medication no surprise there

868
00:38:10,020 --> 00:38:06,040
either her brain has been warped what a

869
00:38:11,910 --> 00:38:10,030
weak soul so because the hippie was

870
00:38:14,370 --> 00:38:11,920
depressed and enjoyed the medicated hi

871
00:38:17,730 --> 00:38:14,380
she is a firm believer that vaccinations

872
00:38:20,490 --> 00:38:17,740
work this story is totally fabricated I

873
00:38:23,370 --> 00:38:20,500
have seen this repeatedly actually same

874
00:38:26,940 --> 00:38:23,380
exact story and it is from Australia

875
00:38:29,250 --> 00:38:26,950
that is a huge red flag as BS Australia

876
00:38:31,650 --> 00:38:29,260
has a stronghold over anything holistic

877
00:38:33,090 --> 00:38:31,660
i have had trolls from australia try and

878
00:38:35,790 --> 00:38:33,100
attack me on twitter and other social

879
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:35,800
media so maven at least claim to be

880
00:38:39,690 --> 00:38:37,570
actual researchers who were proving

881
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:39,700
safety and efficacy of gardasil what a

882
00:38:43,740 --> 00:38:42,130
joke it was mostly one-liners trying to

883
00:38:46,020 --> 00:38:43,750
bash me it was ineffective and

884
00:38:48,090 --> 00:38:46,030
eventually they gave up after I call

885
00:38:50,220 --> 00:38:48,100
them out on different things and make

886
00:38:52,650 --> 00:38:50,230
them look ignorant once again that story

887
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:52,660
is fabricated to someone who is educated

888
00:38:56,700 --> 00:38:54,970
enough to know better the story is not

889
00:38:58,770 --> 00:38:56,710
really even plausible if memory serves

890
00:39:02,970 --> 00:38:58,780
me without rereading the entire thing

891
00:39:06,300 --> 00:39:02,980
again I'm positive their shields planted

892
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:06,310
by the drug cartels I hope this woman

893
00:39:09,780 --> 00:39:07,690
gets over her depression and chronic

894
00:39:12,720 --> 00:39:09,790
fatigue and her need for drug company

895
00:39:17,100 --> 00:39:12,730
endorsement too she's a she'll

896
00:39:18,870 --> 00:39:17,110
definitely paid shill she probably

897
00:39:20,580 --> 00:39:18,880
needed to stay true to her hippie

898
00:39:21,620 --> 00:39:20,590
philosophy and meditate instead of

899
00:39:24,150 --> 00:39:21,630
medicate

900
00:39:27,090 --> 00:39:24,160
I'll be sure to send her some shampoo

901
00:39:30,109 --> 00:39:27,100
and a brush for that bird's nest Heidi's

902
00:39:33,870 --> 00:39:30,119
GP prescribed a placebo in other words

903
00:39:36,570 --> 00:39:33,880
she has an unfortunate name there was

904
00:39:38,460 --> 00:39:36,580
also an insinuation that fire was the

905
00:39:41,210 --> 00:39:38,470
same person who wrote an article for

906
00:39:43,380 --> 00:39:41,220
voices for vaccines purely because

907
00:39:45,150 --> 00:39:43,390
myself and the author for that

908
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:45,160
particular piece both suffered

909
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:48,570
depression so another day another

910
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:50,530
non-existent dollar from the pharma

911
00:39:56,430 --> 00:39:53,850
companies Alison and I are still waiting

912
00:39:58,670 --> 00:39:56,440
this has been highly Robertson from the

913
00:40:01,170 --> 00:39:58,680
Northern Rivers vaccination supporters

914
00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:01,180
give us some love in the way of a like

915
00:40:08,310 --> 00:40:03,250
on our Facebook page or a follow on

916
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:08,320
Twitter and check out our website at www

917
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:11,410
info for more information or to contact

918
00:40:27,780 --> 00:40:25,930
us thank you are you enjoying the

919
00:40:29,780 --> 00:40:27,790
skeptic zone podcast and wondering where

920
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:29,790
you can find more skeptical information

921
00:40:33,870 --> 00:40:31,810
skeptics on the net is an online

922
00:40:36,420 --> 00:40:33,880
directory for everything skeptical it

923
00:40:39,540 --> 00:40:36,430
features listings for skeptical podcasts

924
00:40:41,820 --> 00:40:39,550
blogs people local groups and more it

925
00:40:43,530 --> 00:40:41,830
also includes the sotn blog where people

926
00:40:45,270 --> 00:40:43,540
in the know right introductions to their

927
00:40:53,420 --> 00:40:45,280
favorite skeptical and pseudo scientific

928
00:41:00,980 --> 00:40:57,900
here's my not spooky action

929
00:41:03,590 --> 00:41:00,990
at the distance

930
00:41:05,210 --> 00:41:03,600
I couldn't be more excited because I'm

931
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:05,220
with one the biggest skeptics in the UK

932
00:41:10,550 --> 00:41:08,880
we've got Marsh from for the most I

933
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:10,560
skeptic society from skeptics with a k

934
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:13,170
from this and that really a bit

935
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:14,850
everywhere I'm so excited to meet you

936
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:16,290
because I'm a huge fan of skeptics with

937
00:41:19,190 --> 00:41:17,850
a k it's one of those shows that I enjoy

938
00:41:21,050 --> 00:41:19,200
it when it comes out then a complainer

939
00:41:22,190 --> 00:41:21,060
but as you don't your slack you don't do

940
00:41:24,590 --> 00:41:22,200
it enough it's only once a fortnight

941
00:41:26,450 --> 00:41:24,600
yeah it's really really hard to get Mike

942
00:41:29,270 --> 00:41:26,460
Moore to vid I think that's the problem

943
00:41:31,580 --> 00:41:29,280
he's a surly aggressive kind of guy if

944
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:31,590
you meet him he'll bite your face off

945
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:32,850
before I look at no that's not true

946
00:41:36,260 --> 00:41:34,650
that's not true at all but i think mike

947
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:36,270
mike has i just puts a huge amount of

948
00:41:39,500 --> 00:41:37,890
effort into actually editing and things

949
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:39,510
and yeah when i try and keep it fresh

950
00:41:43,370 --> 00:41:41,130
but it's funny the show really came from

951
00:41:45,170 --> 00:41:43,380
the fact that the first time I ever met

952
00:41:46,580 --> 00:41:45,180
mine cuz when we started the Merseyside

953
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:46,590
skeptics ID I've never met him before my

954
00:41:49,550 --> 00:41:48,450
life had no idea who was we just both

955
00:41:51,290 --> 00:41:49,560
ended up in this pub because he put a

956
00:41:53,090 --> 00:41:51,300
post up a meet up and then the moment we

957
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:53,100
sat down we had exactly the same report

958
00:41:55,940 --> 00:41:54,330
that we have on the show it was kind of

959
00:41:57,410 --> 00:41:55,950
weird since Mike doesn't we speak to a

960
00:41:58,820 --> 00:41:57,420
lot of people but it's just instant is

961
00:42:01,160 --> 00:41:58,830
there something about Liverpool and

962
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:01,170
skepticism is uh is the Merseyside a

963
00:42:05,240 --> 00:42:02,850
particularly skeptical place is there a

964
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:05,250
reason why it happened there um you know

965
00:42:08,030 --> 00:42:06,810
I don't know I think in part it was to

966
00:42:09,590 --> 00:42:08,040
do with the people who were who were

967
00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:09,600
around with a couple of us all had the

968
00:42:13,849 --> 00:42:11,250
same kind of ethos when we got together

969
00:42:15,170 --> 00:42:13,859
we had this kind of feeling that we just

970
00:42:16,910 --> 00:42:15,180
wanted to try and affect what's around

971
00:42:18,710 --> 00:42:16,920
us he wanted to kind of take this and

972
00:42:20,270 --> 00:42:18,720
maybe Liverpool has a slightly cheeky

973
00:42:21,980 --> 00:42:20,280
reputation it kind of has a bit of a

974
00:42:23,630 --> 00:42:21,990
reputation for you no standing no

975
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:23,640
[\h__\h] there's not a lot of kind of

976
00:42:27,170 --> 00:42:25,920
pretension I think in Liverpool so maybe

977
00:42:29,390 --> 00:42:27,180
that's kind of it they have this kind of

978
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:29,400
rebellious attitude a little bit as a

979
00:42:33,140 --> 00:42:31,170
place that if you can't stand up then

980
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:33,150
yeah Oh people don't get confused cuz

981
00:42:36,050 --> 00:42:34,770
Brian Cox is from the north but he's

982
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:36,060
from a different part of the north is

983
00:42:39,260 --> 00:42:37,530
you actually secretly hate him what I'm

984
00:42:41,060 --> 00:42:39,270
seeing it killed yeah that's true i mean

985
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:41,070
the contract killer I've had following

986
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:42,570
him for some time is is utterly use of

987
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:44,130
coz the problem is Brian Cox spend so

988
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:45,930
much of his time in helicopters how'd he

989
00:42:49,370 --> 00:42:48,090
get a hit member it's almost impossibly

990
00:42:50,630 --> 00:42:49,380
I can't afford a hitman to hire a

991
00:42:51,890 --> 00:42:50,640
private so you have to find the very

992
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:51,900
rare times when his feet touch the

993
00:42:56,030 --> 00:42:54,570
ground he's like a starling he sleeps on

994
00:42:57,530 --> 00:42:56,040
the wing you know he sleeps in the air

995
00:42:59,090 --> 00:42:57,540
at all times he never touches the ground

996
00:43:02,300 --> 00:42:59,100
it's he hasn't touched the ground since

997
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:02,310
I think 2006 I think was ok put one foot

998
00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:03,690
down once and he's always somewhere

999
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:05,609
drinking dirty water or pointing at the

1000
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:07,290
sky and he always seems to be standing

1001
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:08,490
on a rock in the middle of nowhere with

1002
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:10,410
something circling him yeah that's his

1003
00:43:13,380 --> 00:43:12,090
natural habitat I think it's like when

1004
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:13,390
you see

1005
00:43:15,870 --> 00:43:14,530
bored he must be waiting for the

1006
00:43:18,420 --> 00:43:15,880
helicopter to come rally must be playing

1007
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:18,430
angry birds or something waiting yeah I

1008
00:43:22,980 --> 00:43:19,930
think so I think so you see birds kind

1009
00:43:25,470 --> 00:43:22,990
of migrating throughout the Brian Cox is

1010
00:43:26,430 --> 00:43:25,480
his natural kind of figure he'll leave

1011
00:43:29,220 --> 00:43:26,440
on a rock over there and then he'll

1012
00:43:30,510 --> 00:43:29,230
he'll return back to Manchester to to

1013
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:30,520
nestle and do a little bit of lecturing

1014
00:43:35,610 --> 00:43:32,410
and then he'll be back off again back on

1015
00:43:38,670 --> 00:43:35,620
the wing yeah and tell me why is this

1016
00:43:40,650 --> 00:43:38,680
such a rivalry between Manchester and

1017
00:43:42,570 --> 00:43:40,660
Liverpool you know I think it goes back

1018
00:43:44,340 --> 00:43:42,580
like centuries really i mean i'm not i

1019
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:44,350
have to confess i'm from neither

1020
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:46,210
liverpool nor manchester I'm from the

1021
00:43:49,590 --> 00:43:47,650
Northeast very very different place

1022
00:43:52,230 --> 00:43:49,600
Newcastle but I think it kind of goes

1023
00:43:55,110 --> 00:43:52,240
back to kind of the indicial revolution

1024
00:43:56,460 --> 00:43:55,120
and where the kind of heart of things

1025
00:43:57,780 --> 00:43:56,470
really saw springing up was but yeah I

1026
00:43:59,640 --> 00:43:57,790
guess it guess it's kind of that in it

1027
00:44:01,740 --> 00:43:59,650
it is a rivalry but at the same time

1028
00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:01,750
it's kind of a jocular rivalry Liverpool

1029
00:44:04,980 --> 00:44:03,040
has its attitude I think and it's always

1030
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:04,990
had this attitude being a port town that

1031
00:44:09,180 --> 00:44:07,450
if you're here you're us and everywhere

1032
00:44:10,860 --> 00:44:09,190
else be at Manchester or the place you

1033
00:44:12,330 --> 00:44:10,870
had 20 miles down the road they're

1034
00:44:14,010 --> 00:44:12,340
foreigners stick to us but if you're in

1035
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:14,020
Liverpool you're you're one of us so

1036
00:44:16,710 --> 00:44:15,370
it's got the free kind of us against the

1037
00:44:18,690 --> 00:44:16,720
world mentality or has done for a long

1038
00:44:20,220 --> 00:44:18,700
time and what is the main woud that

1039
00:44:22,140 --> 00:44:20,230
merseyside skeptics who knew yourself

1040
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:22,150
personally fight against Anna the most

1041
00:44:25,140 --> 00:44:23,170
interested in trying to do something

1042
00:44:27,090 --> 00:44:25,150
about there's probably two so I think

1043
00:44:29,490 --> 00:44:27,100
homeopathy was a big thing for us we did

1044
00:44:31,260 --> 00:44:29,500
the 10 23 campaign which Australia

1045
00:44:33,900 --> 00:44:31,270
participated in were fantastic support

1046
00:44:36,690 --> 00:44:33,910
for us as well when we had 1,700 people

1047
00:44:38,790 --> 00:44:36,700
in 30 countries around the world and we

1048
00:44:40,590 --> 00:44:38,800
had a real effect on on some of the some

1049
00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:40,600
elements of homeopathy in the UK knowing

1050
00:44:44,910 --> 00:44:42,400
Brazil dropped homeopathy from their

1051
00:44:46,170 --> 00:44:44,920
health service in after the 10 23

1052
00:44:48,660 --> 00:44:46,180
campaign because of the Rio de Janiero

1053
00:44:50,550 --> 00:44:48,670
and the pot well I agree 1023 campaigns

1054
00:44:51,810 --> 00:44:50,560
it was it was kind of nuts so we've had

1055
00:44:53,730 --> 00:44:51,820
we've had a real looker and then

1056
00:44:54,900 --> 00:44:53,740
psychics there a personal bugbear of

1057
00:44:56,790 --> 00:44:54,910
mine i'll be speaking about psychics

1058
00:44:58,860 --> 00:44:56,800
tomorrow hire the convention are the

1059
00:45:01,140 --> 00:44:58,870
more psychics per capita in the UK or

1060
00:45:03,540 --> 00:45:01,150
the u.s. you know I don't know I don't

1061
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:03,550
know but yeah the cinema more psychic

1062
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:05,920
shows in the UK that go around well I

1063
00:45:09,240 --> 00:45:07,810
think that's because of the the way that

1064
00:45:10,980 --> 00:45:09,250
the psychic kind of industry is set up

1065
00:45:12,810 --> 00:45:10,990
in the UK you've got you always have a

1066
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:12,820
couple of really big touring psychics

1067
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:14,170
this goes back to the days of like Doris

1068
00:45:17,700 --> 00:45:16,450
talks and people like that and what

1069
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:17,710
tends to happen is someone is the

1070
00:45:20,700 --> 00:45:18,970
leading psychic and they'll be there

1071
00:45:22,020 --> 00:45:20,710
that we ride the crest away for it for a

1072
00:45:23,190 --> 00:45:22,030
while they'll start to tail off and

1073
00:45:24,990 --> 00:45:23,200
someone will just come up and take that

1074
00:45:26,630 --> 00:45:25,000
place so we've had you know Derek Carr

1075
00:45:28,190 --> 00:45:26,640
has been the big guy Colin fries

1076
00:45:31,010 --> 00:45:28,200
the big guy currently it's sally morgan

1077
00:45:33,110 --> 00:45:31,020
who i know very very well at the moment

1078
00:45:34,850 --> 00:45:33,120
she does like tuna shows a year do any

1079
00:45:36,890 --> 00:45:34,860
of them do a different status as we know

1080
00:45:37,970 --> 00:45:36,900
magic kind of changes stylistically do

1081
00:45:39,650 --> 00:45:37,980
any of these do a different sort of

1082
00:45:40,610 --> 00:45:39,660
stylistic psychic show they're doing

1083
00:45:43,460 --> 00:45:40,620
anything different from what they were

1084
00:45:45,110 --> 00:45:43,470
doing in the 1800s yeah actually yeah

1085
00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:45,120
I'd say so and the thing that gets me in

1086
00:45:48,170 --> 00:45:46,800
it when you go and see these these shows

1087
00:45:50,180 --> 00:45:48,180
and I urge people if you haven't seen a

1088
00:45:51,950 --> 00:45:50,190
psychic show go and see one is that the

1089
00:45:53,630 --> 00:45:51,960
circus as part of your the skipper to

1090
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:53,640
the K you say some things to do when you

1091
00:45:56,750 --> 00:45:54,930
go along and as a skeptic that

1092
00:45:58,490 --> 00:45:56,760
non-believer go along and have a look

1093
00:46:00,230 --> 00:45:58,500
and see what happens and also make the

1094
00:46:01,490 --> 00:46:00,240
people who do go and believe in it yeah

1095
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:01,500
yeah because because it's very easy for

1096
00:46:04,010 --> 00:46:02,850
us to sit back and say well people think

1097
00:46:05,180 --> 00:46:04,020
this is just entertainment but people

1098
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:05,190
really believe this you know I've never

1099
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:07,650
seen I've probably seen 2530 psychic

1100
00:46:11,150 --> 00:46:09,330
shores of the last six years of doing

1101
00:46:12,950 --> 00:46:11,160
this and I've never been at a show where

1102
00:46:14,180 --> 00:46:12,960
somebody didn't wholeheartedly believe

1103
00:46:15,830 --> 00:46:14,190
it where there wasn't somebody in tears

1104
00:46:17,300 --> 00:46:15,840
something incredibly moved and if it's

1105
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:17,310
real then great and if it's not real

1106
00:46:20,870 --> 00:46:19,770
that's pretty bad really but yeah so I

1107
00:46:22,190 --> 00:46:20,880
would say if you get a chance to go to

1108
00:46:23,570 --> 00:46:22,200
these psychic shows the cost of

1109
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:23,580
admittance is the price of an education

1110
00:46:27,140 --> 00:46:25,410
you always learn something but that when

1111
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:27,150
you talk about the style hmm one of the

1112
00:46:30,830 --> 00:46:28,530
things that i think sally morgan in

1113
00:46:32,570 --> 00:46:30,840
particular i'm really impressed by from

1114
00:46:34,070 --> 00:46:32,580
her from a showmanship perspective is

1115
00:46:35,390 --> 00:46:34,080
that I think she was one of the first

1116
00:46:37,490 --> 00:46:35,400
big psychics in the UK to turn the

1117
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:37,500
camera on the audience so you say I've

1118
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:38,610
got like a John coming through and

1119
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:40,290
instead of just the psyche of the

1120
00:46:43,580 --> 00:46:41,850
psychic being the one on camera on the

1121
00:46:45,740 --> 00:46:43,590
big screen so everyone gets herself lap

1122
00:46:47,390 --> 00:46:45,750
up and adore their their image it's now

1123
00:46:49,100 --> 00:46:47,400
the person the audience in front of a

1124
00:46:50,240 --> 00:46:49,110
thousand people and when you see

1125
00:46:51,950 --> 00:46:50,250
yourself up there there's this pressure

1126
00:46:53,390 --> 00:46:51,960
to go like you don't to say now that

1127
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:53,400
makes no sense to me because you look

1128
00:46:56,180 --> 00:46:54,810
like an idiot well that's how you feel

1129
00:46:57,710 --> 00:46:56,190
so you've got this real emotional

1130
00:46:59,630 --> 00:46:57,720
pressure to find to me and you make it a

1131
00:47:00,980 --> 00:46:59,640
little bit like stage hypnotism yeah I

1132
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:00,990
think there's an element of that and the

1133
00:47:04,490 --> 00:47:02,130
other thing I've seen sally morgan do

1134
00:47:06,140 --> 00:47:04,500
which i've seen others emulated since is

1135
00:47:07,370 --> 00:47:06,150
that when she gets a connection with

1136
00:47:09,230 --> 00:47:07,380
someone she says well could you stand up

1137
00:47:10,970 --> 00:47:09,240
sometimes when the energies come through

1138
00:47:12,020 --> 00:47:10,980
they can be a bit hard to handle having

1139
00:47:13,490 --> 00:47:12,030
caught with friends with you could they

1140
00:47:14,750 --> 00:47:13,500
stand up as well and then she should

1141
00:47:15,950 --> 00:47:14,760
know about three people set up and

1142
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:15,960
she'll say reading this purse in the

1143
00:47:18,530 --> 00:47:17,010
middle and then she'll say about and

1144
00:47:19,580 --> 00:47:18,540
then there's the dog and this person

1145
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:19,590
doesn't have a dog so she'll turn the

1146
00:47:22,460 --> 00:47:20,850
person spoke nexim do you have the dog

1147
00:47:23,690 --> 00:47:22,470
and now she's reading three people at

1148
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:23,700
once and then she'll come up with

1149
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:24,930
another detail out again once you've

1150
00:47:27,020 --> 00:47:25,890
read in these three people's come with

1151
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:27,030
another detail that doesn't fit any of

1152
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:28,530
those and shall hold on just a second

1153
00:47:31,070 --> 00:47:29,610
this might be for someone else what

1154
00:47:32,780 --> 00:47:31,080
might be for you could you stay standing

1155
00:47:34,910 --> 00:47:32,790
does this make sense to anyone else and

1156
00:47:36,470 --> 00:47:34,920
someone will stand up and that person

1157
00:47:37,550 --> 00:47:36,480
well when the energies come through

1158
00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:37,560
sometimes it's quite hard have you got

1159
00:47:39,660 --> 00:47:38,730
other people so now she's got six people

1160
00:47:41,789 --> 00:47:39,670
stood up and

1161
00:47:43,740 --> 00:47:41,799
that point I could do a psychic reading

1162
00:47:46,049 --> 00:47:43,750
for six people at once because you throw

1163
00:47:47,670 --> 00:47:46,059
something out not only is it likely to

1164
00:47:49,140 --> 00:47:47,680
fit one of them but now you've got this

1165
00:47:50,609 --> 00:47:49,150
pressure that people want to have a

1166
00:47:52,559 --> 00:47:50,619
reading so they'll fight each other for

1167
00:47:55,230 --> 00:47:52,569
it they'll try and be first to get the

1168
00:47:56,460 --> 00:47:55,240
oh yes Steve yes steve is my neighbor's

1169
00:47:57,510 --> 00:47:56,470
brother in law that's who you must mean

1170
00:47:59,849 --> 00:47:57,520
so this is definitely for me so please

1171
00:48:01,859 --> 00:47:59,859
stick with me so how does someone like

1172
00:48:03,750 --> 00:48:01,869
her or most scopus psychics in UK

1173
00:48:05,789 --> 00:48:03,760
describe their connection do they see

1174
00:48:07,079 --> 00:48:05,799
someone do they hear something how do

1175
00:48:08,730 --> 00:48:07,089
they describe the connection they're

1176
00:48:09,839 --> 00:48:08,740
having with people have died you know

1177
00:48:11,250 --> 00:48:09,849
what they'll keep it as woolly as

1178
00:48:13,289 --> 00:48:11,260
possible i think a lot of the time i saw

1179
00:48:14,460 --> 00:48:13,299
a psychic recently polaroid ryan and she

1180
00:48:16,289 --> 00:48:14,470
would say that she was an empath so she

1181
00:48:17,730 --> 00:48:16,299
felt stuff all the time it was it was

1182
00:48:20,069 --> 00:48:17,740
all emotion to that when something

1183
00:48:21,569 --> 00:48:20,079
happened she'd be incredibly emotive

1184
00:48:24,809 --> 00:48:21,579
about it even to a point where she was

1185
00:48:26,099 --> 00:48:24,819
in my opinion faking tears constantly so

1186
00:48:27,990 --> 00:48:26,109
she what your mother says it's so

1187
00:48:29,339 --> 00:48:28,000
beautiful and then she'd snap out of it

1188
00:48:31,380 --> 00:48:29,349
again and it felt really manipulative

1189
00:48:33,270 --> 00:48:31,390
but even the midway through that reading

1190
00:48:35,460 --> 00:48:33,280
or even midway through herschel she'd

1191
00:48:37,620 --> 00:48:35,470
said she said to someone and your father

1192
00:48:39,299 --> 00:48:37,630
where is he and the woman said on my

1193
00:48:41,010 --> 00:48:39,309
father's dead and Paula said oh he's

1194
00:48:42,599 --> 00:48:41,020
just walked in i can see him well that's

1195
00:48:44,220 --> 00:48:42,609
pretty convenient but the guy walked in

1196
00:48:46,289 --> 00:48:44,230
just after you heard that he was dead

1197
00:48:48,089 --> 00:48:46,299
yeah just really didn't walk in first so

1198
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:48,099
they can open a portal to the nether

1199
00:48:51,930 --> 00:48:50,170
world anytime yeah I think so you can

1200
00:48:53,430 --> 00:48:51,940
see people they can hear people so a lot

1201
00:48:55,289 --> 00:48:53,440
of them will try and leave it loose so

1202
00:48:56,789 --> 00:48:55,299
that they can say anything they want at

1203
00:48:58,349 --> 00:48:56,799
any time but it might yell maybe they're

1204
00:48:59,849 --> 00:48:58,359
genuine move that how it works if

1205
00:49:01,559 --> 00:48:59,859
they're not genuine then it certainly

1206
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:01,569
would benefit them to have complete

1207
00:49:04,740 --> 00:49:03,130
flexibility about how they want to get

1208
00:49:06,180 --> 00:49:04,750
information through so they don't have

1209
00:49:07,770 --> 00:49:06,190
to see when this air but your dad here

1210
00:49:09,270 --> 00:49:07,780
so says all what's he look like oh I

1211
00:49:10,559 --> 00:49:09,280
don't know I can't see him he's not he's

1212
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:10,569
not here here i Kenned your sense um you

1213
00:49:13,140 --> 00:49:12,130
know it gives you so many outs if you

1214
00:49:15,089 --> 00:49:13,150
want to be challenged you've had

1215
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:15,099
skeptics handing out flyers outside the

1216
00:49:19,170 --> 00:49:17,530
show do i do you think there is to get

1217
00:49:21,150 --> 00:49:19,180
two people to go to these shows to maybe

1218
00:49:22,859 --> 00:49:21,160
think about ours is this really real or

1219
00:49:24,599 --> 00:49:22,869
not because you're challenging their

1220
00:49:28,020 --> 00:49:24,609
belief in meeting their loved ones again

1221
00:49:29,549 --> 00:49:28,030
yeah and I think this is why skepticism

1222
00:49:30,450 --> 00:49:29,559
at its really useful that we all really

1223
00:49:32,099 --> 00:49:30,460
important that we've moved away from

1224
00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:32,109
this bombastic approach of saying well

1225
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:33,730
you're all just gullible fools and all

1226
00:49:37,079 --> 00:49:35,410
psychics are liars and frauds and we've

1227
00:49:39,030 --> 00:49:37,089
moved on from that I think because all

1228
00:49:40,470 --> 00:49:39,040
that does is make you saying it feel

1229
00:49:42,059 --> 00:49:40,480
better the person you're talking to just

1230
00:49:43,770 --> 00:49:42,069
shuts down immediately and not going to

1231
00:49:45,210 --> 00:49:43,780
reach those people so what we did with

1232
00:49:46,620 --> 00:49:45,220
the fires that were handing out during

1233
00:49:48,390 --> 00:49:46,630
psychic awareness month which was

1234
00:49:50,370 --> 00:49:48,400
October the Flyers were saying here's

1235
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:50,380
how to spot a genuine psychic so maybe

1236
00:49:53,670 --> 00:49:52,330
there are genuine psychics out there but

1237
00:49:55,050 --> 00:49:53,680
there are some things you can do to

1238
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:55,060
pretend to be psychic so maybe the

1239
00:49:57,810 --> 00:49:56,290
person you're seeing might be psychic

1240
00:49:59,130 --> 00:49:57,820
the next guy you see how do you know

1241
00:50:00,180 --> 00:49:59,140
he's psychic well here's some things to

1242
00:50:01,860 --> 00:50:00,190
look out for and if they're doing this

1243
00:50:03,150 --> 00:50:01,870
maybe you got caused a question if

1244
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:03,160
they're doing none of this they've got

1245
00:50:06,300 --> 00:50:04,690
nothing to worry about you know the none

1246
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:06,310
of these things here are applying to

1247
00:50:09,450 --> 00:50:08,050
them and I think what we were handing

1248
00:50:11,490 --> 00:50:09,460
these fliers out people were really

1249
00:50:13,140 --> 00:50:11,500
receptive when I have very very few

1250
00:50:14,790 --> 00:50:13,150
people say to me or what you're doing is

1251
00:50:16,230 --> 00:50:14,800
wrong loads of people even stayed in

1252
00:50:17,820 --> 00:50:16,240
conversation and said so what your why

1253
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:17,830
you're doing this and say well it's

1254
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:19,210
important to me that we figure out if

1255
00:50:23,490 --> 00:50:20,650
this is real or not maybe it's real

1256
00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:23,500
maybe it isn't but that quest that the

1257
00:50:26,970 --> 00:50:25,510
fact that the question still exists it

1258
00:50:28,650 --> 00:50:26,980
is enough to make this an important

1259
00:50:29,910 --> 00:50:28,660
issue because so many people press so

1260
00:50:31,500 --> 00:50:29,920
much emotional energy in this you know

1261
00:50:34,260 --> 00:50:31,510
they really put a lot of investment i

1262
00:50:36,030 --> 00:50:34,270
saw one woman at a show who we'd

1263
00:50:38,340 --> 00:50:36,040
established that her husband had died

1264
00:50:40,140 --> 00:50:38,350
and then the psychic found out that this

1265
00:50:42,150 --> 00:50:40,150
woman had tried to commit suicide on two

1266
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:42,160
occasions and a psychic first of all

1267
00:50:45,150 --> 00:50:43,810
told her well this is your husband's

1268
00:50:46,470 --> 00:50:45,160
words now he's saying if you try it

1269
00:50:48,780 --> 00:50:46,480
again you'd be left in a wheelchair

1270
00:50:50,790 --> 00:50:48,790
drinking through a straw that's pretty

1271
00:50:51,870 --> 00:50:50,800
horrible stuff if it's not true and the

1272
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:51,880
next thing we found out was that this

1273
00:50:54,180 --> 00:50:53,050
woman had seen his psych a couple a

1274
00:50:55,770 --> 00:50:54,190
couple years ago she was going to

1275
00:50:57,960 --> 00:50:55,780
scatter her husband's ashes somewhere

1276
00:50:59,040 --> 00:50:57,970
this I could said don't do that it's

1277
00:51:01,290 --> 00:50:59,050
really important you keep them with you

1278
00:51:02,670 --> 00:51:01,300
so since then she'd been taking a pinch

1279
00:51:04,860 --> 00:51:02,680
of his ashes and I'm rubbing them across

1280
00:51:07,410 --> 00:51:04,870
her chest before she left you know and

1281
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:07,420
that someone can have that amount of

1282
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:09,850
power over someone means it's crucial

1283
00:51:12,180 --> 00:51:10,810
that we figure out if this is real

1284
00:51:13,850 --> 00:51:12,190
enough because if this isn't real and

1285
00:51:16,050 --> 00:51:13,860
then you've got that level of power

1286
00:51:17,100 --> 00:51:16,060
that's that's really quite disturbing

1287
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:17,110
you know people say what the harm is

1288
00:51:20,460 --> 00:51:18,970
there's the harm did you think maybe she

1289
00:51:21,930 --> 00:51:20,470
might have been trying to shock her into

1290
00:51:23,460 --> 00:51:21,940
not having another attempt at killing

1291
00:51:24,540 --> 00:51:23,470
yourself by warning her about this or

1292
00:51:25,860 --> 00:51:24,550
something she might have been attempting

1293
00:51:27,420 --> 00:51:25,870
that she might've been think she might

1294
00:51:29,850 --> 00:51:27,430
have been doing some good by saying that

1295
00:51:30,780 --> 00:51:29,860
yeah probably but who's she to say that

1296
00:51:32,850 --> 00:51:30,790
that's the best way of doing you know

1297
00:51:34,620 --> 00:51:32,860
people we have people who are who are

1298
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:34,630
experts in counseling people at that and

1299
00:51:37,770 --> 00:51:36,130
clearly this woman in the audience was

1300
00:51:39,420 --> 00:51:37,780
not dealing well with loss you know she

1301
00:51:42,060 --> 00:51:39,430
was seeing psychic she was smearing her

1302
00:51:44,100 --> 00:51:42,070
husband's dead ashes over her body and

1303
00:51:46,230 --> 00:51:44,110
she was trying to put suicide I don't

1304
00:51:48,030 --> 00:51:46,240
think the stage psychic even if they had

1305
00:51:49,350 --> 00:51:48,040
psychic ability is the best person to

1306
00:51:51,810 --> 00:51:49,360
counsel that person on how to avoid

1307
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:51,820
having any other you know problems in

1308
00:51:55,140 --> 00:51:53,290
their life how to deal with grief people

1309
00:51:56,580 --> 00:51:55,150
say that they're helping people move on

1310
00:51:58,650 --> 00:51:56,590
but they're not they're keeping the

1311
00:52:00,420 --> 00:51:58,660
wounds open because if you've lost

1312
00:52:02,250 --> 00:52:00,430
someone it's incredibly painful we've

1313
00:52:04,230 --> 00:52:02,260
all lost people and it's the hardest

1314
00:52:05,730 --> 00:52:04,240
thing the world to deal with but you

1315
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:05,740
have to there are stages to grief and

1316
00:52:07,140 --> 00:52:05,890
there

1317
00:52:08,130 --> 00:52:07,150
you have to move through those stages of

1318
00:52:10,020 --> 00:52:08,140
grief you have to get to a point where

1319
00:52:11,700 --> 00:52:10,030
its acceptance you can move on with your

1320
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:11,710
life as hard as that is but if you think

1321
00:52:14,790 --> 00:52:13,210
the person isn't gone they're just in

1322
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:14,800
the next room and this person just

1323
00:52:17,820 --> 00:52:16,690
paying can can speak to them then you're

1324
00:52:19,380 --> 00:52:17,830
never going to move on and why would you

1325
00:52:20,940 --> 00:52:19,390
you know that you love this person money

1326
00:52:22,740 --> 00:52:20,950
is nothing to keep that connection open

1327
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:22,750
I've heard you talk on the skeptics or

1328
00:52:26,070 --> 00:52:24,610
the case show before about what kind of

1329
00:52:27,660 --> 00:52:26,080
Wu you would like to be real is there

1330
00:52:29,910 --> 00:52:27,670
one that you would like to be real and

1331
00:52:31,710 --> 00:52:29,920
afterlife or some sort of ability well

1332
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:31,720
for me it's not the afterlife because I

1333
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:33,490
think there's a psychic ability it's not

1334
00:52:37,140 --> 00:52:35,050
that because I think that the thing that

1335
00:52:38,430 --> 00:52:37,150
there is for psychic to be real it comes

1336
00:52:40,260 --> 00:52:38,440
with this whole of the stuff of like so

1337
00:52:42,210 --> 00:52:40,270
people are still around somewhere so

1338
00:52:43,140 --> 00:52:42,220
what is that experience life from glad

1339
00:52:45,540 --> 00:52:43,150
you're saying this because whenever

1340
00:52:48,150 --> 00:52:45,550
people say that sort of thing afterlife

1341
00:52:50,010 --> 00:52:48,160
if you could reliably talk to the dead

1342
00:52:51,030 --> 00:52:50,020
that and I could say this all time with

1343
00:52:52,260 --> 00:52:51,040
lots of interviews I've from boring

1344
00:52:54,240 --> 00:52:52,270
people is because if you could reliably

1345
00:52:56,340 --> 00:52:54,250
talk to the dead repeatedly that would

1346
00:52:57,690 --> 00:52:56,350
fundamentally change our society so much

1347
00:52:59,970 --> 00:52:57,700
that our society would become

1348
00:53:01,770 --> 00:52:59,980
unrecognizable yeah it would have a huge

1349
00:53:03,810 --> 00:53:01,780
effect but there'll be no new knowledge

1350
00:53:05,370 --> 00:53:03,820
you could always ask old people or

1351
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:05,380
everybody that ever been related to you

1352
00:53:08,580 --> 00:53:06,610
could contact you and tell you what to

1353
00:53:10,830 --> 00:53:08,590
do all the time you there would be no

1354
00:53:12,870 --> 00:53:10,840
not as much emphasis to drive forward

1355
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:12,880
yeah exactly because for me that the

1356
00:53:16,620 --> 00:53:14,410
fact that we have a finite life and we

1357
00:53:17,940 --> 00:53:16,630
don't go anywhere after this is one of

1358
00:53:19,410 --> 00:53:17,950
the driving factors that I want to do as

1359
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:19,420
much as possible I want to help people

1360
00:53:21,990 --> 00:53:20,770
as much as possible people say that if

1361
00:53:23,610 --> 00:53:22,000
you don't believe in an afterlife then

1362
00:53:24,750 --> 00:53:23,620
you've got no reason to live and there's

1363
00:53:27,060 --> 00:53:24,760
no purpose in life and what's to stop

1364
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:27,070
you doing X Y Zed well why would I ever

1365
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:29,650
want to harm someone if I know this is

1366
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:31,210
their only shot at life how could I live

1367
00:53:35,250 --> 00:53:33,130
with myself if I know I'd materially

1368
00:53:36,390 --> 00:53:35,260
harmed their only chance of existence

1369
00:53:38,250 --> 00:53:36,400
whereas if they live in the afterlife

1370
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:38,260
then yeah maybe I will you're Nick this

1371
00:53:41,430 --> 00:53:39,850
or you know punch him in the face over

1372
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:41,440
there cuz ya get over it you'll be fine

1373
00:53:45,330 --> 00:53:42,850
and you know 100 years time when you're

1374
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:45,340
in ethereal spirit floating around so

1375
00:53:47,910 --> 00:53:46,810
what would you like the the would be

1376
00:53:49,470 --> 00:53:47,920
true is there something like some

1377
00:53:50,850 --> 00:53:49,480
invisibility would you like Belle to

1378
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:50,860
move stuff with your hands without

1379
00:53:54,990 --> 00:53:53,410
touching it telekinesis it'd be cool I

1380
00:53:56,190 --> 00:53:55,000
mean you could do a lot of fun stuff

1381
00:53:58,080 --> 00:53:56,200
with telekinesis you could really

1382
00:53:59,160 --> 00:53:58,090
impress people at parties yeah you could

1383
00:54:00,810 --> 00:53:59,170
tell you could you could have a lots of

1384
00:54:02,130 --> 00:54:00,820
adventures with telekinesis mi go with

1385
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:02,140
that one I think because mind-reading I

1386
00:54:05,490 --> 00:54:04,090
think could be so it'd be a double-edged

1387
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:05,500
sword are you because then you'd find

1388
00:54:07,980 --> 00:54:06,250
out what people are really thinking

1389
00:54:09,720 --> 00:54:07,990
about you yeah and people tell me that

1390
00:54:10,860 --> 00:54:09,730
enough anyway and know it when people

1391
00:54:12,450 --> 00:54:10,870
tell me what they think about me it's

1392
00:54:13,770 --> 00:54:12,460
nasty enough so if they're if they're

1393
00:54:14,850 --> 00:54:13,780
holding back I wouldn't want to hear

1394
00:54:16,710 --> 00:54:14,860
what they're actually thinking about me

1395
00:54:18,370 --> 00:54:16,720
now are people in the north a bit blunt

1396
00:54:19,630 --> 00:54:18,380
with the skeptics like that

1397
00:54:21,100 --> 00:54:19,640
they don't just quietly disagree with

1398
00:54:22,570 --> 00:54:21,110
you the guy make you're full of [\h__\h] I

1399
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:22,580
think it was a scottish guy saying that

1400
00:54:25,450 --> 00:54:24,170
actually okay you know what I I've

1401
00:54:27,060 --> 00:54:25,460
actually found the opposite and maybe

1402
00:54:29,020 --> 00:54:27,070
this is my northern buyers which I'm

1403
00:54:30,460 --> 00:54:29,030
incredibly guilty of but when we were

1404
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:30,470
handing out the flyers June psychic

1405
00:54:34,090 --> 00:54:32,570
awareness month northern people were so

1406
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:34,100
warm about it they were all thank you so

1407
00:54:36,910 --> 00:54:35,690
much love oh yeah cheers for this and

1408
00:54:38,140 --> 00:54:36,920
they were really lovely where is when

1409
00:54:39,250 --> 00:54:38,150
we're doing it in the South people just

1410
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:39,260
kind of moved on they took it but it

1411
00:54:43,030 --> 00:54:41,090
would just start stony silence or yeah

1412
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:43,040
and maybe this is just it could have

1413
00:54:45,340 --> 00:54:44,330
been a quirk of the shores that we were

1414
00:54:47,650 --> 00:54:45,350
going at who knows what it's actually

1415
00:54:48,910 --> 00:54:47,660
caused by but my northern bias just

1416
00:54:51,370 --> 00:54:48,920
tells me this is because northern people

1417
00:55:04,160 --> 00:54:51,380
are inherently better in every single

1418
00:55:09,450 --> 00:55:07,320
ad hominem begging the question factoid

1419
00:55:11,579 --> 00:55:09,460
propagation false analogy false cause

1420
00:55:13,380 --> 00:55:11,589
false dichotomy gibberish immunized

1421
00:55:14,910 --> 00:55:13,390
hypothesis moral equivalence poison the

1422
00:55:17,579 --> 00:55:14,920
well simple modern certitude stacking

1423
00:55:19,470 --> 00:55:17,589
the deck and WTF are just some of the

1424
00:55:22,020 --> 00:55:19,480
fallacies we provide real life examples

1425
00:55:25,890 --> 00:55:22,030
of in hunting humbug 101 a podcast about

1426
00:55:37,930 --> 00:55:25,900
bad arguments check it out at WWF text

1427
00:55:44,539 --> 00:55:40,400
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1428
00:55:48,229 --> 00:55:44,549
zone wow that was a an epic an epic

1429
00:55:51,229 --> 00:55:48,239
episode thank you Joe alabaster that was

1430
00:55:52,910 --> 00:55:51,239
a extensive report you gave and wow what

1431
00:55:54,799 --> 00:55:52,920
a lot of research you had to do this

1432
00:55:56,450 --> 00:55:54,809
topic is still going on and next week

1433
00:56:00,710 --> 00:55:56,460
we'll bring you further updates as to

1434
00:56:02,210 --> 00:56:00,720
the ten penny debacle one might say and

1435
00:56:03,890 --> 00:56:02,220
thank you to Heidi Robertson from the

1436
00:56:06,079 --> 00:56:03,900
Northern Rivers vaccination supporters

1437
00:56:09,380 --> 00:56:06,089
group nice to have another raw skeptic

1438
00:56:12,319 --> 00:56:09,390
report oh I hope there are more I hope

1439
00:56:14,690 --> 00:56:12,329
they're immoral I think I think you're a

1440
00:56:17,059 --> 00:56:14,700
good reporter and you're right well

1441
00:56:19,190 --> 00:56:17,069
Heidi if I may say so thank you very

1442
00:56:22,279 --> 00:56:19,200
much and of course next week we have

1443
00:56:25,430 --> 00:56:22,289
part two of maynards interview with

1444
00:56:28,940 --> 00:56:25,440
michael marshall and next week's episode

1445
00:56:31,059 --> 00:56:28,950
I aim to get out a day early because by

1446
00:56:35,690 --> 00:56:31,069
the time I would normally put it out

1447
00:56:39,829 --> 00:56:35,700
I'll be on a flight to San Francisco so

1448
00:56:41,299 --> 00:56:39,839
we'll see we'll see how that goes if not

1449
00:56:44,499 --> 00:56:41,309
it might be a day late but you'll still

1450
00:56:47,180 --> 00:56:44,509
get your weekly fix of the skeptic zone

1451
00:56:49,849 --> 00:56:47,190
but for this week with the rain still

1452
00:56:52,700 --> 00:56:49,859
trickling down what a pleasant sound

1453
00:56:59,120 --> 00:56:52,710
that is this is Richard Saunders signing

1454
00:57:02,390 --> 00:56:59,130
off from Sydney Australia you've been

1455
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:02,400
listening to the skeptic zone visit our

1456
00:57:09,410 --> 00:57:06,930
website at www skeptics on TV for

1457
00:57:20,089 --> 00:57:09,420
comments contacts and extra video

1458
00:57:25,289 --> 00:57:23,130
dude it to do here's the audio due to